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View Full Version : [FORUM] Question about mature/adult art and this forum



FishNChips
07-29-2012, 09:37 AM
I'm aware that posting images that can be considered NSFW is not allowed on this board. To me that's perfectly fine, it's the same in very many forums on the web. But weasyl is an art community, and one thing that the forums are useful for is doing stuff such as asking for critique on one's work, or even sharing such stuff via trades, commissions, and freebies.

Last night I opened a freebie thread for art containing semi-nude suggestive work, a thread that's still expecting two more pictures by me. In the title of that thread, I did place a warning, and since it's been open, a moderator has not intervened. Is it safe to assume that placing warnings on the title of threads is the way to go concerning this? I'm personally more geared towards posting art with artistic, mature nudity and not fetishy cum-throwing adult art, if that's worth mentioning.

I even feel like posting for critique and tutorials on women's boobs and butts sooner or later. This is an art community, and giving and recieving helpful information regarding nude art should be part of it, if handled with maturity. But of course, I respect the fact that people do not want to see certain things at an inappropriate time, as well as some parents out there would like to preserve the innocence of their children's minds.

How would I go about doing this without breaking any rules?

Judicant
07-29-2012, 10:11 AM
What I would think would be preferable in cases of artwork that could be considered 'adult' in some circles would be to upload it to the mainsite and link to it here, simply because the mainsite checks for age on images and we don't have a way to do that on the forums. In the case of critique, the mainsite will have some sort of critique functionality I believe, though I'm not sure what all it will entail.

The problem is, as is probably apparent, the mainsite isn't available yet. While the basic reason why I think such content shouldn't be embedded here still stands, I'd rather we presented a reasonable alternative in its stead.

For now I'll leave the current thread as-is (I'm on my phone in a car anyway, can't really mod from here lol), but I'll bring it up with the rest of the staff and see what we can come up with.

FishNChips
07-29-2012, 10:17 AM
What I would think would be preferable in cases of artwork that could be considered 'adult' in some circles would be to upload it to the mainsite and link to it here, simply because the mainsite checks for age on images and we don't have a way to do that on the forums. In the case of critique, the mainsite will have some sort of critique functionality I believe, though I'm not sure what all it will entail.

The problem is, as is probably apparent, the mainsite isn't available yet. While the basic reason why I think such content shouldn't be embedded here still stands, I'd rather we presented a reasonable alternative in its stead.

For now I'll leave the current thread as-is (I'm on my phone in a car anyway, can't really mod from here lol), but I'll bring it up with the rest of the staff and see what we can come up with.

Alright man, thanks for the response! Yes, I didn't expect you guys to allow adult material on the forum, but what about "mature"? Artistic nudity and things. And, would you like me to remove pictures in my thread and replace them with just links?

Other than that, I look forward to more info. :>

Judicant
07-29-2012, 10:37 AM
If you're ok doing so, links will probably be better until we can decide how to approach this for the time being. It is a delicate line deciding what is an isn't acceptable for younger audiences, so it's best to err on the side of caution I think.

I do understand where you're coming from though, and one of the things I want for this site is to have a well-formed artist community which trading and critiquing would definitely play a major part of, it's just very hard to make calls on what constitutes 'artistic nudity' and what doesn't. My personal view is that the content you're describing is pretty benign, but I've seen enough out there that my view is probably different than someone else's.

Eminoxic
07-29-2012, 11:11 AM
Alright man, thanks for the response! Yes, I didn't expect you guys to allow adult material on the forum, but what about "mature"? Artistic nudity and things. And, would you like me to remove pictures in my thread and replace them with just links?

Other than that, I look forward to more info. :>

If it's in a link it's fine, unless it becomes crazy and obvious porn-mode.

Fiz
07-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Alright man, thanks for the response! Yes, I didn't expect you guys to allow adult material on the forum, but what about "mature"? Artistic nudity and things. And, would you like me to remove pictures in my thread and replace them with just links?

Other than that, I look forward to more info. :>

I've seen your thread and I don't see any reason to take the images down and link them. The thread title already states it's NSFW and mentions 'tasteful', which to me immediatly makes me think "tasteful nudity". You could edit the thread title to explicitly say tasteful nudes if you wish.



As for links in general, I have a suggestion. Maybe we could set up redirects on links to a page that states the following link may or may not be NSFW and to be cautious. Make it set as an option as well for those who don't really care what they click (myself). I'm not sure if it would help that much, but it would just be a bit of extra padding I suppose.

Fay V
07-29-2012, 01:17 PM
The images you have up now are alright, it's more frontal nudity that should be linked.

Right now we have no way of verifying age access to certain pages. So if people start directly posting NSFW images to the site we are liable for allowing minors access to nudity. We ask that artists link to items because it is then up to the source to limit access, not us. If another site is hosting the image it isn't our fault that minors see it.

We can look into ways to allow images posted onto the site while still protecting ourselves, but for now please keep any images that show breasts or genitals to links. thanks

FishNChips
07-29-2012, 01:36 PM
Okay, thanks very much! :>

I've got one more post to make in that thread later on, but I may be linking that one rather than embedding it this time, depending on the content. And if I ever do open that tutorial/critique/discussion thread, I'll be sure to keep both links and warnings at the ready. :>

acefredfred
07-29-2012, 01:44 PM
This is vBulletin right?

With vBulletin you can make groups that have access to certain forums. So if you make a NSFW group that you have to apply to get into, their should not be this problem.

It's an easy fix.

FishNChips
07-29-2012, 04:04 PM
This is vBulletin right?

With vBulletin you can make groups that have access to certain forums. So if you make a NSFW group that you have to apply to get into, their should not be this problem.

It's an easy fix.

This is a fantastic idea, if you ask me. If one can prove their age, they can get in.

And of course, they would have to prove their age. They'd be applying, of course. Whatever date they set their birthday to when they register on the forum should not count as proof.

oneandonly
07-29-2012, 04:11 PM
This is a fantastic idea, if you ask me. If one can prove their age, they can get in.

And of course, they would have to prove their age. They'd be applying, of course. Whatever date they set their birthday to when they register on the forum should not count as proof.

While I don't have a problem with that, it just seems like it would be a large amount of work for the administration. Why would it be so much more important to check proper age here rather than the main site, or FA, or Youtube, or whatever other site that doesn't need to be mentioned here?

Taw
07-29-2012, 04:55 PM
While I don't have a problem with that, it just seems like it would be a large amount of work for the administration. Why would it be so much more important to check proper age here rather than the main site, or FA, or Youtube, or whatever other site that doesn't need to be mentioned here?

Pretty much this.

I've been on forums where they try and verify people's ages and such to allow NSFW content but in the end it seems like a huge hassle to do - for now it will stay as just linking to your mature/adult works on other sites (without using [img] tags of course). We want the forums to be PG-13 and hopefully once the Weasyl mainsite opens up it can be used to link to as an alternative than other hosting sites when posting those kinds of works here.

FishNChips
07-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Oh, true, true.

Besides, after thinking about it more, encouraging adult stuff in even part of the forum will likely bring in quite a few members from a furry demographic that a lot of us would rather do without. As in, it could make it possible for the 18+ stuff to start leaking out into the wrong places.

Inxa
08-02-2012, 11:15 PM
Little late to the party, but I wanted to pop in and ask about mature art on the mainsite. I'm an artist who really specifically works with mature artwork, but my work is very rarely furry. I've longed and longed for a community where mature art could be posted and shared like on FA without that unspoken 'furries only' exclusion or 'bois only'. Over the years, I've posted on chans, y-gallery, rule34, tumblr and FA. There just isn't a descent community for this stuff. Pixiv is closest to my imagination but non-english of course.

So understanding that we can't post it here in the forums. That's all good. Will we be able to post 18+ material on the mainsite? Which would be blatant drawn pornography or heavier gore. (Obviously with filters of course)

So excited btw! I know I'm going to love weasyl either way. I can not wait to delve into the mainsite.

Taw
08-02-2012, 11:20 PM
As long as the content fits within our Community Guidelines (which can be found here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16895537/Weasyl/Community%20Guidelines.pdf ) you are free to upload it to Weasyl as far as I know of. :3

Inxa
08-02-2012, 11:33 PM
Omg thank you Taw. Somehow I did not find the dropbox! Clicking on the comm guidelines link on the front page just took me to a 'page not found'.

Oh man now the wait is going to be even more difficult! Been wanting this so badd. *u*,

Kazekai
08-06-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm gonna bump this because I have a serious problem with one of the guidelines.

---
2. Minors in Sexual Situations: Submissions and other uploaded
content must not contain characters who are, or are depicted as being,
under the age of eighteen and are engaged in sexual situations.
Depicted as being under the age of eighteen can mean one of two
things:
 The character is referred to or implied as being under 18, whether in a visual or written piece,
or;
 The character in question has small child, or infant-like proportions.
Furthermore, photographs must not contain any improperly clothed minors regardless of the situation
depicted.
---

The last sentence doesn't bother me but the rest of it does. I had a ton of friends who were banned from FA unfairly because they drew cub porn and I absolutely hate it when people put it on the same level as child rape or whatever. The main reason why I hate FA is because of that. I like that kind of thing, that's why I go to Inkbunny, and I want a damn good explanation for why this is even a rule. Is this gonna be more bullshit where people are going to get banned from a website for posting things that aren't even illegal just because some dipshit moralist has a problem?

If I seem abrasive, I am. I'm sick of this bull with FA and I don't like people acting like them. I thought this site would be different from FA and more accepting.

Fiz
08-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Believe me, we don't think that drawn art is on the same lines as child porn or child rape. I hate it when it gets compared to that.

We originally wanted to allow said content but there were a few things that we were really concerned about. Vague laws being a big one, we don't want to have our members get in trouble over vague laws. Another big concern being about merchant services and credit card vendors. We're already considered "high risk" and so far it seems that all of the vendors we've checked do not allow this sort of content. We want to be honest with our future merchant services about what kind of things will be hosted on the site.

Another thing is that it came down to either accepting cub but disallowing shota/loli, or disallowing it all. We don't want to be restrictive on content but it doesn't seem like a fair, good policy to allow one thing but disallow the other, even though they are basically the same, content wise.

Theres a few posts on the tumblr discussing this policy. One (http://weasyl.tumblr.com/post/23943566957/our-community-guidelines-genital-exposure-and-adult) and Two (http://weasyl.tumblr.com/post/24062825146/our-community-guidelines-concerns-about-what-makes-us).

At the end of the day, this isn't about morals, it's about erring on the side of the law and trying to have fair policy.

Kazekai
08-06-2012, 03:32 PM
Believe me, we don't think that drawn art is on the same lines as child porn or child rape. I hate it when it gets compared to that.

We originally wanted to allow said content but there were a few things that we were really concerned about. Vague laws being a big one, we don't want to have our members get in trouble over vague laws. Another big concern being about merchant services and credit card vendors. We're already considered "high risk" and so far it seems that all of the vendors we've checked do not allow this sort of content. We want to be honest with our future merchant services about what kind of things will be hosted on the site.

Another thing is that it came down to either accepting cub but disallowing shota/loli, or disallowing it all. We don't want to be restrictive on content but it doesn't seem like a fair, good policy to allow one thing but disallow the other, even though they are basically the same, content wise.

Theres a few posts on the tumblr discussing this policy. One (http://weasyl.tumblr.com/post/23943566957/our-community-guidelines-genital-exposure-and-adult) and Two (http://weasyl.tumblr.com/post/24062825146/our-community-guidelines-concerns-about-what-makes-us).

At the end of the day, this isn't about morals, it's about erring on the side of the law and trying to have fair policy.

If your hearts weren't in that decision, then I'm sorry. That crap where FA basically banned a bunch of people, some of which were my friends, and excluded a certain group out of activities has really made me hate that site and that attitude. When I read that, I thought it was just gonna be another situation like that, but it doesn't sound like something that can be helped, and it does sound like the administration was considering fairness, and not exclusion, when they made that rule. I also forgot that, while that kind of porn is legal in the U.S., Canada and the UK have a lot of ridiculous restrictions on it that are completely and utterly biased and pointless.

So TL;DR fuck the police, I guess.

FishNChips
08-06-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm not into pedo porn, but I do have a question.

I have a habit of getting into dark topics at times, and they tend to run along adult/mature themes, but they are by no means pornography. The core of it is usually hinted at, implied, or otherwise shown in the context or shown in a way that isn't explicit visually. This can be anything from violence to sex.

I have not done so yet, but what if I put a minor in one of those? The theme can put a minor into a mature/adult situation, such as violence, abuse, or something perverse, and with the way I work, it's often merely implied, shown in the context, or not explicit visually. It can be ranging from tame to absolutely disgusting, but there is little to no imagery present that someone can fap to.

Basically, a situation not suitable for children, featuring children, yet by no means pornographic.

Is this against Weasyl's rules?

PapayaShark
08-06-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm gonna bump this because I have a serious problem with one of the guidelines.

---
2. Minors in Sexual Situations: Submissions and other uploaded
content must not contain characters who are, or are depicted as being,
under the age of eighteen and are engaged in sexual situations.
Depicted as being under the age of eighteen can mean one of two
things:
 The character is referred to or implied as being under 18, whether in a visual or written piece,
or;
 The character in question has small child, or infant-like proportions.
Furthermore, photographs must not contain any improperly clothed minors regardless of the situation
depicted.
---

The last sentence doesn't bother me but the rest of it does. I had a ton of friends who were banned from FA unfairly because they drew cub porn and I absolutely hate it when people put it on the same level as child rape or whatever. The main reason why I hate FA is because of that. I like that kind of thing, that's why I go to Inkbunny, and I want a damn good explanation for why this is even a rule. Is this gonna be more bullshit where people are going to get banned from a website for posting things that aren't even illegal just because some dipshit moralist has a problem?

If I seem abrasive, I am. I'm sick of this bull with FA and I don't like people acting like them. I thought this site would be different from FA and more accepting.

Your friends weren't banned unfairly if they broke the site policy, just saying.

Kazekai
08-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Your friends weren't banned unfairly if they broke the site policy, just saying.

I consider a biased against any group of people for no good reason to be "unfair," in this instance, I still think it is unfair (Oh you can draw gore but nothing with kids in it!) but there isn't much point in blaming the admins for it, it isn't their fault, it's the fault of idiot politicians with personal agendas and/or closed minds.

FishNChips
08-06-2012, 05:10 PM
Incoming CP debate

Not this shit again.

Anyway, not pointing any fingers, but I need to say this if there are any other Pro-CP users lurking around. Read the admins' responses.

They are abiding by the LAW.

The LAW.

There is nothing that you, or they, can do about the law. Weasyl is a BUSINESS. Weasyl requires PROFIT. If they are to stay standing, they are required to ABIDE by the law, like ALL businesses. They cannot take the risk of breaking the law like this, especially in a way that is obvious.

Seriously, the majority of pro-CP users I've seen on FA, FAF, DA, Wzl, are incapable of grasping this simple logic.

Your, my, and the admin's personal morals simply have nothing to do with it.

Now I'm just going to wait for a mod to answer my question on the previous page.

Tiger
08-06-2012, 05:15 PM
I consider a biased against any group of people for no good reason to be "unfair," in this instance, I still think it is unfair (Oh you can draw gore but nothing with kids in it!) but there isn't much point in blaming the admins for it, it isn't their fault, it's the fault of idiot politicians with personal agendas and/or closed minds.

I don't see how it's "unfair". Cub porn is banned on fA for legal/monetary reasons. It's not because they're being biased against a certain group of people but because AlertPay will not allow it. It was either allow cub porn and risk having the entire site taken down, or ban it and have the site continue to run.

http://www.flayrah.com/3346/fur-affinity-loses-alertpay-account-bans-cub-porn

Kazekai
08-06-2012, 05:18 PM
Not this shit again.

Anyway, not pointing any fingers, but I need to say this if there are any other Pro-CP users lurking around. Read the admins' responses.

They are abiding by the LAW.

The LAW.

There is nothing that you, or they, can do about the law. Weasyl is a BUSINESS. Weasyl requires PROFIT. If they are to stay standing, they are required to ABIDE by the law, like ALL businesses. They cannot take the risk of breaking the law like this, especially in a way that is obvious.

Seriously, the majority of pro-CP users I've seen on FA, FAF, DA, Wzl, are incapable of grasping this simple logic.

Your, my, and the admin's personal morals simply have nothing to do with it.

Now I'm just going to wait for a mod to answer my question on the previous page.

I did read their response, and I did respond to it, obviously you didn't read it.

I can respect you if you have some problem with the kind of content that I like, but you can at least understand that the issue I have is that I don't feel that a certain group of people is being respected for unfair reasons - although as I stated in that post you didn't read, it's not something really directed at the admins as much as stupid people in offices.


I don't see how it's "unfair". Cub porn is banned on fA for legal/monetary reasons. It's not because they're being biased against a certain group of people but because AlertPay will not allow it. It was either allow cub porn and risk having the entire site taken down, or ban it and have the site continue to run.

http://www.flayrah.com/3346/fur-affinity-loses-alertpay-account-bans-cub-porn

Except that AlertPay didn't actually pick FA back up when they banned it, so it did nothing.

FishNChips
08-06-2012, 05:19 PM
I did read their response, and I did respond to it, obviously you didn't read it.

Your reading comprehension is just wonderful isn't it.


not pointing any fingers, but I need to say this if there are any other Pro-CP users lurking around.

PapayaShark
08-06-2012, 05:24 PM
I consider a biased against any group of people for no good reason to be "unfair," in this instance, I still think it is unfair (Oh you can draw gore but nothing with kids in it!) but there isn't much point in blaming the admins for it, it isn't their fault, it's the fault of idiot politicians with personal agendas and/or closed minds.

Its not unfair. FA needed to ban it if they wanted to continue running the site. And its not about beings close minded. Being anti gay is close minded. Being against adults masturbating to children isn't. And drawn porn of children, anthro or not, is very close real children.

Taw
08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm not into pedo porn, but I do have a question.

I have a habit of getting into dark topics at times, and they tend to run along adult/mature themes, but they are by no means pornography. The core of it is usually hinted at, implied, or otherwise shown in the context or shown in a way that isn't explicit visually. This can be anything from violence to sex.

I have not done so yet, but what if I put a minor in one of those? The theme can put a minor into a mature/adult situation, such as violence, abuse, or something perverse, and with the way I work, it's often merely implied, shown in the context, or not explicit visually. It can be ranging from tame to absolutely disgusting, but there is little to no imagery present that someone can fap to.

Basically, a situation not suitable for children, featuring children, yet by no means pornographic.

Is this against Weasyl's rules?

If it's implied without any explicit detail and such, it's fine I believe. If a court wouldn't find it to constitute CP and it abides by our community guidelines then it shouldn't be an issue. When in doubt, don't post it, I suppose.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread, as this is getting into a heated debate. I understand that people can be passionate about something, but please, try and respect other users' opinions and do not call them out on it or start things because they don't like the same things you do.