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View Full Version : [SUGGESTION] Rating options as opposed to outright faves?



Sanchi Sunpelt
02-16-2013, 11:01 AM
Hihi I've Always thought It was pretty cool for art-sites to have, a rating system for pics instead of a favoriting system. Favorites are so polar, it's like all or nothing. With a rating system you can have in-betweens and give somewhat better feedback of how you feel about a picture. The artists can get a better feel for what the people who follow them like, and less people feel out-right ignore because their stuff only gets a few faves. What do you guys think?

Telvadian Rebel
02-16-2013, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't want to do away with favs, though. I like faving things so I can go back and look at them again! Doing away with that would make it hard to find them unless you saved them onto your computer. I do kind of like rating systems sometimes, but I have mixed feelings about them.

ShadWolf
02-16-2013, 11:17 AM
That doesn't sound too bad… well if you look at sites like Pixiv, they use a 10 Star Rating system where users can rate out of 10 how much they like something. Sure don't see why something like that can't be made for here too. Plus I think it would have more positive feedback to the artists. :3

Example;
http://i.imgur.com/q8kyds8.png

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-16-2013, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't want to do away with favs, though. I like faving things so I can go back and look at them again! Doing away with that would make it hard to find them unless you saved them onto your computer. I do kind of like rating systems sometimes, but I have mixed feelings about them.

What if they set it up so that, like anything that rated say 5 (or above)out of ten is considered a fave?

ShadWolf
02-16-2013, 11:32 AM
What if they set it up so that, like anything that rated say 5 (or above)out of ten is considered a fave?
I think what she meant was for like a bookmark button to favourites so you can go back and view the art again for later when you browse your favourites section.

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-16-2013, 11:39 AM
I think what she meant was for like a bookmark button to favourites so you can go back and view the art again for later when you browse your favourites section.
Thats what I mean anything rated like 5 or above is treated as a fave and bookmarked and pretty much everything that happens normally with a fave.

Telvadian Rebel
02-16-2013, 12:01 PM
I still like my fav button. I may find a piece of artwork worthy of ten stars, but it doesn't mean it's a subject matter and style that I particularly want to hunt down again. I feel that ratings and favs should be two different things. :)

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-16-2013, 02:57 PM
Fair enough.

Dark
02-16-2013, 03:11 PM
Having experienced art sites with rating systems, this isn't a good idea. Newgrounds has their system, but trolls just go around zerobombing stuff a lot of the time.

Fiz
02-16-2013, 04:12 PM
I don't really think this would be a good idea, because any time I've been on a site with a rating system, it tends to get abused more than used. Also I don't feel star ratings are very good feedback for artwork. Good feedback comes from comments and critique, not an arbitrary star rating.

So yea, I don't think this is something that will get implemented.

Dark
02-16-2013, 04:16 PM
I don't really think this would be a good idea, because any time I've been on a site with a rating system, it tends to get abused more than used. Also I don't feel star ratings are very good feedback for artwork. Good feedback comes from comments and critique, not an arbitrary star rating.


Or neither, which is what led me to disable it on my forum. Not the same demographic, I know, but what's the point of a rating system on any type of website if it isn't used?

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-16-2013, 11:32 PM
While comments are nice, not everyone even gets them, at all. An arbitrary star rating as some form of feedback is better than nothing.

Dark
02-16-2013, 11:47 PM
While comments are nice, not everyone even gets them, at all. An arbitrary star rating as some form of feedback is better than nothing.

If some don't get comments, what makes you think they'd get star ratings? Just saying.

Tiger
02-17-2013, 01:06 AM
While comments are nice, not everyone even gets them, at all. An arbitrary star rating as some form of feedback is better than nothing.

I disagree. A lot of people are sensitive when posting their work, and I feel that is respectable. How would someone feel if they spent hours and hours on a submission and posted it with pride and they receive only two stars out of five? or even 10? I think it would be much more hurtful to have a bad star rating on an image than just no favorites. If someone receives a 2 out of 5 that means someone deliberately and intentionally took the time to rate the artwork a low rating, and I personally do not see that as any form of feedback.

I personally feel sticking to the favorites system is the way to go. It's a nice little gesture to the artist that someone genuinely enjoyed their work, and the person that favorites it has a way to stay connected, in a sense, to the artwork that really stands out to them.

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-17-2013, 04:25 AM
If some don't get comments, what makes you think they'd get star ratings? Just saying. Because people don't always feel like they have anything to say. the usual "Cute", or "Nice" really wears out after a while. It doesn't require much effort to click a button and still get your point across about the pic.

- - - Updated - - -


I disagree. A lot of people are sensitive when posting their work, and I feel that is respectable. How would someone feel if they spent hours and hours on a submission and posted it with pride and they receive only two stars out of five? or even 10? I think it would be much more hurtful to have a bad star rating on an image than just no favorites. If someone receives a 2 out of 5 that means someone deliberately and intentionally took the time to rate the artwork a low rating, and I personally do not see that as any form of feedback.

I personally feel sticking to the favorites system is the way to go. It's a nice little gesture to the artist that someone genuinely enjoyed their work, and the person that favorites it has a way to stay connected, in a sense, to the artwork that really stands out to them.

Well anything is open for discussion, they wouldn't necessarily have to do away with the fave system, and as far as a low rating goes, a serious artist doesn't take feedback personally. They use it to improve If someone received a low rating that they know was not deserved then hey, someone decided to be a butt. Overall though I think it's just a way for more people to receive some feedback without the only options available to the viewer is- to type "cute" for the thousandth time or just fave it.

- - - Updated - - -

Are people just out to shut down ideas? So, it didn't work on another site; It hasn't even been tried on this one. I have yet to see anyone try to compound on the idea, refine it. Say, Faves and rating optional? An option to have peers review a rating, as fair or unfair?

Telvadian Rebel
02-17-2013, 09:28 AM
Okay, okay. It's time for me to really put my two cents in over that one. First of all? It's asinine to complain that people are shutting down your ideas just because they don't agree with you. You gave your opinion, and now we're giving ours. I, in the past, haven't had a problem with a simple "thumbs up or thumbs down" rating system, although it's also seemed very pointless. Despite delusions that it's valid feedback for an artist, it's not. Invariably, it turns out that it's just the artist's friends bumping them up no matter how good or bad it is. Or, for that matter, people who don't like the artist bumping it down. The legitimate votes get lost in there somewhere. The star rating system is even worse, and doesn't count as viable feedback at all. Don't even assume that bad ratings won't be taken seriously by a "serious" artist. It's a wordless insult to the work, with no explanation, and ANY artist, regardless of their media, is probably going to be bothered by that. This brings me to my real point.

Comments. Yes. I'm sick of things like "cute" or "nice" or "Awesome." And I bet a lot of other people are too. So we sit and bitch about it on a forum? A rating system (which won't change because no matter how good the admins are, the art COMMUNITY is not going to change, because it's the same damned people gravitating from all of those other dissatisfying sites) is not the answer, artists and commenters not being LAZY is the answer. Is it too much to ask for? Apparently, because I know it's not going to change, but I honestly couldn't care less about a bunch of stars or a thumbs up, or even a fav. What I want, and what every artist wants is REAL feedback.

We as artists spend so much time on our work, fine-tuning it, trying to get better, and how is a bunch of stars going to help that? It's not. You can give something a rating of one, and not say why. People need to start leaving critique. They need to start saying what's good AND bad about a picture, and helping each other improve. Sadly, most of the art community seems to come here just to GET feedback, and not to give any. I want to challenge EVERYONE who reads this post to leave a comment of roughly a paragraph in length on every image they fav for the next week. Imagine how THAT would help the art community? The answer isn't in ratings. It's in the artists themselves.

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-17-2013, 10:16 AM
I'm not complaining that people are shutting down ideas because they disagree with me. I expect disagreement, but I also expect people to go "Hey that may not work as it is, but it may be possible if...(insert idea here)" as opposed to saying "No, it didn't work on that other site so it's not going to work here." - That ma'am, is Asinine. I love your whole thing about people needing to leave real feedback on pictures. That would be so awesome, but do you believe it's going to happen? A fave can just be a person's friends faving them as well.

Yes, we spend a ton of time working on our art, and yes we'd love to get those critiques, and comments, but we have to face that it's just not going to happen like that. People don't have time to sit down and comb through a list of things for every pic that they want to say something about. Also who said it specifically had to be a star-rating? Any form of a rating system that can give an artist some idea of how people feel about their work. There would still be comments, there would still be faves, there would be people who just down-vote something because they dislike the artist, there would also be people who up-vote their friends, but in the end, wouldn't those just get lost in the average?

I see pics all the time that I don't really know what to say about, I may like it, I may see mistakes, I may not know how to explain to the artist how to fix said mistakes, I may not really want to fave it, but at least I could rate it appropriately.

What if it was broken into parts say a rating 1-5 for(perhaps)
Anatomy
Perspective
Style
Coloring-and shading(if applicable).

All separate, but each averaged for each part, then averaged together for an overall rating.

Put in radio button Asking users if they would like to "Rate this Picture", set default to "No". If "yes" -display 4 categories that can be rated. To reduce unneeded bulkiness. When done rating page refreshes automatically and replaces the radio buttons with "Thank you".

The artist sees something along the lines of-

Average Ratings for this picture"
Anatomy - 3.75
Perspective- 4.33
Style- 5.00
Coloring and shading- 3.45
Overall- 4.13

Tucked into an unused corner.


With people "gravitating from those other dissatisfying sites", what -pray tell- is stop this one from being yet another one, a DeviantArt clone with a different layout? Doing the same thing everyone else is doing, because people resist any suggestion of a change because it's easier to leave it as it is. People migrate from other sites only because this one is new, they expect something a little different out of it. Sadly it seems to be heading the same direction as the dissatisfying ones.

Fay V
02-17-2013, 12:15 PM
I must say this, as an artist some feedback is not necessarily better than no feedback.

I understand you want to make the point that sometimes people don't know what to say. They don't know how to describe what's not quite right about the picture and don't want to just say "nice". That's fine, it happens. I know I do that as well, even with my art friends. The thing is a rating system will not fix that. It could actually make things worse.
Giving something three stars doesn't mean anything. Did you like the picture and just hate that it had a tiger instead of an elf? Was there a problem with the composition? would it look better with a different color set?
I don't know. I don't know any of that, all I know is someone has come along and said "well it could be better"

In an art community the fact you may or may not like something isn't actually that important. That sounds harsh, but the truth is "why" someone disikes it is what is needed. I've had plenty of "critique" that amounts to "this was cool, but I'd like it better if it looked more like my character." If a rating system was used properly I then have some random 2 star rating because I didn't make it look like a winged wolf instead of a winged cat, even if it's a commission.

The nature of a rating system is consumerist. It is a method in which the consumer does not give feedback, but uses the stars to value what "they" like and find other items "they" like based on their own arbitrary scale. Netflix or music does this and that works. When you tell netflix "this movie was a four" the director doesn't get a call and think "well that's better than a 'nice' comment" It's purely for you to find what you value in movies.

An art community can not sustain such a method, it works against the premise. The answer to that is inevitably "comment" even if you're not sure what to say, start a dialog. I've had plenty of times personally where I spoke to an artist with vague comments of "I like it, this seems off" and together we could pinpoint the issue. In the end they got feedback and I learned to be a better communicator.
When you have a system in place it stops at the system. Someone says "2 stars" and leaves.

This is all assuming it is used properly. Now imagine a young new artist starting out. They don't have followers yet and are at the whims of people. So their art gets 3 and 4 stars, that's nice, but a group of downers comes and just blasts all their stuff for no reason and they sit at an average of 2, no feedback or anything just someone thought they should have 0s. The popular artists of the site get higher ratings because they have a big following to protect them, so it appears they are better and more people follow due to the high ratings. It's a case of the rich get richer.

Not every idea works well with a concept. When you want to change something you have to look at what each addition will do and often to change things you don't need to change the structure at all, but how it is used. It's not resisting any change but recognizing that one idea doesn't really fit.

Think of it this way. How would you feel if those of us that disagree could go "I'll give this idea 2 stars because I don't know how to explain why I dislike it". Not having a rating system forced us to put our opinion into words and we are all the better for it, and the best we can do is encourage a community to do that. It doesn't matter if you're not sure how to comment right now, we'll teach you. If people comment now then new users learn how in the future.

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-17-2013, 12:31 PM
That was probably the best, possible thing that anyone could have said here.

Dark
02-17-2013, 12:45 PM
This is all assuming it is used properly. Now imagine a young new artist starting out. They don't have followers yet and are at the whims of people. So their art gets 3 and 4 stars, that's nice, but a group of downers comes and just blasts all their stuff for no reason and they sit at an average of 2, no feedback or anything just someone thought they should have 0s. The popular artists of the site get higher ratings because they have a big following to protect them, so it appears they are better and more people follow due to the high ratings. It's a case of the rich get richer.


This is one of the primary reasons I left Newgrounds. It's just so hard to get anything meaningful out of a rating when idiots who bomb the zero button run rampant and nobody besides the well-known musicians gets any feedback. The other reason is that their upload policy hit the fan a while ago (you're seriously expecting me to cite every single thing I used? certain plugins get discontinued, certain sample packs vanish off the Internet. you're moronic, NG.), and I happened to get banned for not telling them literally everything about my uploads.

Telvadian Rebel
02-17-2013, 01:00 PM
This... is why I love this site already. The admins take the time to REALLY answer and explain. Thank you, for putting all of that into words, Fay. I couldn't have said any of it better myself. (Fact, because I sort of tried, lol.)

Aden
02-17-2013, 01:04 PM
I wonder...why would other users have to see your ratings at all? What if it was just used as a personal organization mechanism, much like star ratings in iTunes? I wonder if that would be useful at all

Dark
02-17-2013, 01:17 PM
I wonder...why would other users have to see your ratings at all? What if it was just used as a personal organization mechanism, much like star ratings in iTunes? I wonder if that would be useful at all

You mean as in how you can rate things in Windows Media Pooper to organise them based on what you like? That might work, provided people actually use it.

Onnes
02-17-2013, 04:46 PM
I wonder...why would other users have to see your ratings at all? What if it was just used as a personal organization mechanism, much like star ratings in iTunes? I wonder if that would be useful at all

I think this would be a great idea applied to favorites. Just allowing users to sort their own favorites based on which they feel are the best could be a useful feature. It would probably make favorites more useful as a collection to refer back to when one wants to find certain exemplary artists and works.

Arcturax
02-17-2013, 04:51 PM
I'd prefer just having faves. Rating system is prone to abuse and will become a major source of drama.

Fay V
02-17-2013, 05:26 PM
I wonder...why would other users have to see your ratings at all? What if it was just used as a personal organization mechanism, much like star ratings in iTunes? I wonder if that would be useful at all

That I could support. I think it would be a good way for users to find things they like as well, if we could get an algorithm to actually code that based on what others like as well. In some respects this would cause those that are popular to remain popular, but at the same time you don't have people driving it down purposefully, and for others to see.

DragonTalon
02-17-2013, 07:41 PM
Private ratings would be interesting. It could certainly work as the base of a 'Suggestions' system once a lot of people started using it and you got a decent dataset to numbercrunch on.

As an 'artist' though I'd really wish I could see my own ratings. I know they are not really accurate. Someone may 10 star a picture of their rare kink even though the art is crappy, so you never know if someone is rating you on the quality of your work or the subject matter.

So I'd say...

1. Private... Yes.
2. See ratings on your own work? Maybe.
3. See ratings on other artists works? No.

RubyGirl14
02-18-2013, 01:07 AM
Perhaps also commentary can be integrated into the rating system, so that at least there's an opportunity to privately tell an artist what needs improvement/what looks great without the public eye having to see.

blaurascon
02-18-2013, 09:27 AM
Inkbunny has a rating system for favorites as well and honestly while I think it's a nice idea I don't think it should replace favoriting - in IB's case I get more confused about what I should fave-rate it as than I probably should and sometimes end up not favoriting because I can't pick one. Maybe have it as an optional thing when you favorite something, to help classify it, or give the artist feedback?