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View Full Version : People uploading art they didn't make, but they commissioned



RX-149Dragonite
10-22-2012, 02:54 AM
Yeah, this is a question I've had in my mind for a bit

What's the ruling on people uploading artwork they didn't make, but they commissioned?

I'm confused since my assumption was that the collections feature was to be used for this purpose, but some of the pics I've run into don't use it.

Otherwise, I'm personally against it because A. people should fill up their galleries with their own creations and B. it gets hella confusing to separate a person's art from art they commissioned.

So what's up?

Temrin
10-22-2012, 03:35 AM
Collections are used when the artist is already on this site. If the artist isnt on this site, then you cannot add it to the collection because its not there, right?

People are allowed to upload images that were made for them, is my understanding. (i would assume as long as credit is available to the actual artist)

RX-149Dragonite
10-22-2012, 03:51 AM
People are allowed to upload images that were made for them, is my understanding. (i would assume as long as credit is available to the actual artist)

Eh, that doesn't ring well with me because it more or less makes Weasyl just an image hosting site for people who commission things, instead of an art site, ya know?

Temrin
10-22-2012, 04:52 AM
Eh, i differ in oppinion. Not every person in the world knows how to draw or sing or write etc. Those people who post here with their art they have gotten from others, its actually helping advertize for artists who arent here. As long as they arent claiming it as their own work i feel it should be alright. Heck, a client of mine uploaded pictures of mine and when i saw, i offered to upload them on my account so he could "collect" them and thats what we did. He just didnt know i was here at the time :)

Sure not all will be as willing, but i dont think its so bad if people who want to show support for artists theyve have purchased things from. But i do see where you are coming from. With the whole image hosting feel. But i dont really think its that big of a deal. Image posting site to me, would be uploading pictures and photos of the same thing, slight differences, or a million photos of ones self, etc. XD

Kajoken
10-22-2012, 05:13 AM
And I'm against the Collection feature. Even if the artist would be on the site, I will not use it. I want full control over my submissions.
Let's say some artist left the fandom because of <enter reason here> and deletes his gallery. If I'd use the collection system, it would probably get deleted as well.
Not an option for me.

Ben
10-22-2012, 05:15 AM
Our intention is to strengthen the collections system so that it can mimic all the behavior of the commissioner uploading it to their gallery, without consuming additional HDD space, and to the satisfaction of the public. We're working on adding the ability for the person who commissioned it to amend a description, and I've proposed that a submission get a second wind on the front page every time it's added to collections, for users to be able to sort collections into folders, and for the person who accepted the collection to start getting comment notifications on the piece, based on community feedback. I'm not sure if there would be a way to make it so collected works cannot be deleted unless all submission owners disassociate from the piece, but if it is, that would be superb.

But yes, users can upload things made for them.

Mewtwolover
10-22-2012, 06:21 AM
B. it gets hella confusing to separate a person's art from art they commissioned.
Actually it doesn't get confusing at all mainly because it's almost always mentioned in the description if the pic is commissioned. I've been over 6 years in FA(and other art sites) and I've never had problems with separating a person's art from art they commissioned.

Tartii
10-22-2012, 11:33 AM
I am actually all for commissioners uploading artwork made for them.
An "Image hosting site" is like photobucket, where anybody can upload whatever they want, even if it is not theirs or made for them. Thus the image site gets spammed with all sorts of junk.
A commissioner uploading images they are proud of is another story. They are uploading art for THEM, as well as advertising for the person they got the art from. I personally LOVE it when people upload artwork I made for them. Not only is it another plug in for me, I also love to read what they think about it, and what others think as well. It's a great system imo.

As for having a hard time differentiating between what they drew and what they didn't draw....that should be easy to tell? Everybody has their own styles, and each style should be able to be differentiated between these people. Are there imitators? Yes, but it would be an incredibly rare case for an artist to upload something that wasn't drawn by them...but is exactly like their style. Make sense?

RX-149Dragonite
10-22-2012, 12:20 PM
As for having a hard time differentiating between what they drew and what they didn't draw....that should be easy to tell? Everybody has their own styles, and each style should be able to be differentiated between these people. Are there imitators? Yes, but it would be an incredibly rare case for an artist to upload something that wasn't drawn by them...but is exactly like their style. Make sense?

What I don't like is when I have somebody on my watchlist who uploads art that they commissioned, and I get the notification saying they uploaded something and I'm thinking "Oh, someone posted art they made, let's see it!" and it turns out is isn't theirs. It's just kinda annoying when that happens.

FishNChips
10-22-2012, 12:42 PM
What I don't like is when I have somebody on my watchlist who uploads art that they commissioned, and I get the notification saying they uploaded something and I'm thinking "Oh, someone posted art they made, let's see it!" and it turns out is isn't theirs. It's just kinda annoying when that happens.

Typically they tell you who the artist is, so hey, you just found a new artist to watch. Both you and the artist benefit in their own ways. What's the problem here? It's quite the same on... nearly every artsy site, really.

However, when the re-uploader claims the stuff as their own, or they do not provide any information or links to the original artist, then yes, that's a problem.

Roki
10-22-2012, 01:46 PM
Additionally, if the pieces are tagged for it, you can always set a filter to block commissioned artwork.

Perhaps "works_by_others" should be a suggested tag? We really ought to have a listing of suggested tags and their definitions, haha.

Skulldog
10-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Personally, I am very okay with people uploading art they commissioned/was done for them, as long as it's clearly marked by the uploader.

Perhaps Weasyl might work in a required yes or no field for 'this art was done for me' to help have a better flagged system for art created by the uploader, or art for the uploader.

RX-149Dragonite
10-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Additionally, if the pieces are tagged for it, you can always set a filter to block commissioned artwork.

Perhaps "works_by_others" should be a suggested tag? We really ought to have a listing of suggested tags and their definitions, haha.


Personally, I am very okay with people uploading art they commissioned/was done for them, as long as it's clearly marked by the uploader.

Perhaps Weasyl might work in a required yes or no field for 'this art was done for me' to help have a better flagged system for art created by the uploader, or art for the uploader.

Yes, and yes, that would help tremendously

Vine
10-23-2012, 01:31 PM
I haven't read the thread so I'm not sure if this had been said yet, but I think things would be a lot easier if there was just a separate tab on peoples profiles for commissions/gifted/drawings they didn't do. Like, a folder that clearly separates the work that they did from the work that they commissioned.....SOMETHING LIKE COLLECTIONS, only perhaps give people the ability to submit work to their collections even if the artist isn't on the site, and requires you to put credit.
Personally I hate when people submit work they didn't do on their gallery.

Roki
10-23-2012, 02:12 PM
I like Vine's suggestion; just make a "Submit to Collection" option. It would essentially copy all the features of regular submit - aside from journals since I doubt that would be relevant - and simply submit the commission directly into collections.

If that were implemented it'd be nice to have collections visible by default on the user's front page as it may contain the only submissions associated with that profile.

Temrin
10-23-2012, 02:45 PM
"Submit To COllection" Would be FANTASTIC!

(Having collections viewable on the home page has been suggested and i think they are going to do that)

Bornes
10-23-2012, 04:48 PM
Posting in here to say I would really like the 'submit to collections' feature.

Kayla
10-25-2012, 09:16 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Unless an agreement has been said otherwise; as long as they credit who the original artist is, it shouldn't be an issue for commissioners to upload artwork they paid for.

RadioCatastrophe
10-26-2012, 12:27 AM
Yeh, I like to show off work I paid someone to do for me, sometimes it's just for people who watch me like my holiday themed commissioned work. I even have my folders set up to have my commissioned work in one and work people have commissioned from me in another. Though as Vine said and as I suggested else where a feature like Nabyn has with "Guest Art" would be lovely, however I would like to have it appear just like any other upload as well as an option in settings to filter out this new Tab/Gallery so if anyone doens't want to see commissioned work from someone they're watching they don't have to.

Either way as long as artists have it in their TOS to allow re-uploading I'm gonna still do it, lol.

RX-149Dragonite
02-18-2013, 07:45 PM
I'd hate to bump a months old thread, but this is getting ridiculous lately with the open beta.

I've ran into nearly a dozen cases just over the past two days of clicking on pictures and finding out the uploaders did not make the pictures. It's really getting annoying, especially when the people who actually drew the pictures don't have accounts here, therefore I would have to go to different sites (some I've personally vowed never to return to) just to look at their galleries and follow them, which really is counteractive against the whole point of an artsite. I mean if people are just going to post things on here that came elsewhere, why not just go to the source itself?

Either implement a way like collections where art you didn't make but commissioned goes and doesn't show up on the front page, or something else, because it's really getting old fast.

Algorithmus
02-18-2013, 08:17 PM
As someone who just browses other people's art for fun, I probably won't care too much if they drew it or not. Of course, I would be under the impression that they drew it because it's in their gallery, but since I don't commission people, it's not an issue. However, I understand that other people do commission others, or are looking for other people to do commissions or trades and such with, and it would be important to those people whether or not that artist drew the said picture or not. However, I don't think people like to dig through people's galleries just to find out whether or not they drew all the work, and unless it's really obvious, you should just be able to tell if the work in someone's gallery is stuff they commissioned or drew themselves just by looking at the previews. I suppose that's what having a collections section should be for.

Y!Gallery had an extras section for stuff like that, but they used it for artwork that falls outside of the focus of that gallery. The way it works is that you simply link your pictures to the extras section; your images aren't actually stored on the site, and you can't fave them, but you can comment on them.

Is there some feature in collections where you can link the commissions to the source image if they're on this site?

Springdragon
02-18-2013, 09:30 PM
I have mine sorted by folders.

I really want to be able to show off and use the art that I commissioned of my characters. Obviously, I can't submit them to my gallery because I don't want it mixing in with my own work. However, I also can't link, collect, or favorite them from anywhere because they aren't uploaded to any art site. It was a private commission from a game site and the images are hosted on photobucket and the like. For now, they're just collecting dust in a folder on my computer.

So yes, it would be really nice to have separate galleries for purchased work and created work.

Trianine
02-19-2013, 08:12 AM
Personally, I love the collections folder. Am I reading this correctly, that uploads to collections must already exist on-site?

As a compromise between requiring half a dozen galleries for one person and in staying with the for-you-or-by-you policy, it would be nice to amend the collections folder to allow for uploads from off-site, with something (like a colored border) to signify that a user or artwork isn't actually/originally present on Weasyl, and offer the relevant links to the original site/artist. Regarding RX-149Dragonite's complaint, separating notifications for submissions and collections would be a nice compromise, assuming that users don't continue to upload "for-you" artwork into their submissions.

Minka
02-19-2013, 11:24 AM
Since we are on the topic.. When you see a work that is a collection piece, will the member listed at the top (aka in the title) be the artist or the commissioner? And if it's the artist, how do we know who the piece was for if they do not put the commissioner's name in the description? Will it automatically show up in the tags?

Sanchi Sunpelt
02-19-2013, 12:35 PM
I only upload my own art here, I already have a gallery full of other people art that I commissioned, but I don't find it problematic for others to upload their commissioned pics. I mean it's theirs, they paid to have it made and they have every right to upload it to their account with proper crediting to the artist really. People want to show off what they bought, and not every artist is on this site, and even if some are they may go by a completely different username.

Mayhem
02-19-2013, 01:59 PM
Personally I love the collections idea.

I have seen a lot of people upload art they have commissioned and not put it in the title or not link to the actual artist. Like just putting "Drawn by Mayhem" Well which Mayhem?

So collections helps with the whole, who drew it and showing off the talent of that artist.

I just wish there was an option when uploading (like a checkbox) that said "commissioned" and when people checked it. It would somehow make it stand out differently from the rest of the gallery. Like put a border on it, or automatically insert the words "commissioned art piece:" before the title of it.
And maybe a place to insert a link to the original artist page so that it can automatically show a link to them.


I was wondering about collections. If I add someones art to my collection, then they delete it from their gallery, Will it remain in my collection?
If not I would think we should suggest that it does, I think the commissioner should have the right to keep it in their gallery because it is their bought artwork.

Bobskunk
02-20-2013, 08:45 AM
Reading this thread I see a lot of really good concerns and questions about collections and stuff. While a "this work was commissioned" checkbox solves some problems, and "submit to collections" solves others, I think the roots of this problem go a bit deeper. The collections idea is absolutely brilliant, but it's due for some extra thought/writing. I've got some ideas of my own that could improve the collections dynamic and hopefully cut down on uncertainty. I hope they don't sound too bad, overcomplicated or derivative. I'm just passing time before class after an all-nighter.

As it is right now, the uploader is the basically the submission's owner and a collector gets a link to it. Pretty straightforward, but not exactly optimal when both creator and commissioner/subject can upload- this has created some confusion and even anger, and also raises control issues. If everyone used the site like they were "supposed to," assuming that the submission creator is intended to be the submission owner, the artist would upload a work and everyone in it gets to collect it, but the sheer backlog some artists have to upload is a serious detriment. This is especially so when some users they'd want to send the collection to don't have accounts yet, and having to go back and edit submissions when someone does sign up is yet another pain. This also brings up issues like what happens to a commissioned work when the artist deletes all their submissions- even if the commissioner still has the image saved, part of the whole commissioning experience is to have others see, favorite and comment on it.

I'm thinking a system could work where a given submission has an option for the uploader to choose roles for other users, including themselves. At its simplest, you'd have the roles split up between artist/creator and commissioner/subject, especially when there are multiples of each. So if an artist uploads a picture that has another user as the subject, or they paid for the work, they can set themselves as an artist and the other user as a subject. Conversely, a commissioner can post an image, set themselves as a commissioner, and set the work's artist as... well, the artist.

Some details like control of submission information/tags will have to be hashed out, if all/some/one stakeholder in an image get to write the description, as well as how deletions are handled (I'm assuming leave it up until the last referencing submission entity is deleted), but I think it could really streamline the process and emphasize every participant in each picture. It might also be expandable to support things like collaborations, where inking, coloring and other components can be attributed to different users. This might not be as helpful, since it can simply be placed in the description. However, a standard but optional section where you can see different roles both for artists and subjects still has its utility.

Even without major changes, if generally accepted practice is to have the work's creator be the submission "owner" then a commissioner should be able to swap roles with another user. If I upload something an artist did three years ago, it might not be a priority for them to upload it. However, it would be in my gallery, and it would end up in their collections, fragmenting their gallery and potentially hampering their organization. If I was able to transfer ownership, though, they'd get an "accept/ignore" prompt like collections and friends, where accepting prompts them to confirm/change the description and tags. After that, the submission appears in their gallery, in my collections, all without another upload or requiring the artist to search through file archives or have the picture sent to them by other means- I can imagine this being done in two clicks. One, if an "I'm feeling lucky"-esque button is there in addition. Something like the ability to request a collection would be nice, too. This could deal with integrity/consistency issues while making it easier on both

I've been putting off writing up this idea for a few months, but I'm thinking it's time to try to put it to words and write up a thread on it. With the open beta and some vocal concerns about the collections system that may or may not have been assuaged by policy updates, it's probably time to overhaul collections as I believe it has really, really massive potential in an art site, particularly one with such a large community of commissioned art.

Lemme know if any of that makes sense. I'm putting off making a thread about it until I have the idea more or less 'right', and much more organized than it is in this post.