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Spelunker Sal
10-18-2012, 03:56 PM
Couldn't find a thread specifically about tags, so I'm making one.

I'm seeing that anyone at all can go in and add/modify/delete tags onto anyone's submissions, no matter what it is or who they are. Another user added a tag on one of my submissions that I didn't want there. I removed it, but it's kind of concerning because anyone could write anything they want in there and you would never know unless someone pointed it out to you. I went on to someone else's submissions, and sure enough, I can add tags, and even delete their own (I added back the tag I deleted on theirs after my test, so nothing is changed for their submission).

Is there a way to disable that? I'm really not seeing an option to disable tags from other users on your submissions. If not, I really feel that there should be an option for that.


Edit: Found the option to disable the removal of your own tags by other people, so I guess the person I tested it on had that disabled. Still haven't found an option to prevent other users from adding tags to your submissions, though, and you can still type in anything you want as a tag on someone else's art.

Ransom
10-18-2012, 08:31 PM
I'm surprised that the option isn't already available. I think the idea of the community contributing to the tagging is a good idea, as I've seen so many pictures that haven't been tagged well or have been miscategorized on FA. However, I can see this becoming an easy way to troll people, if the artist has no notification of the tags being added or deleted, limited options to screen modifications, and nobody's specifically accountable of the modifications of individual tags.

I'm not sure what the best solution would be. Perhaps have an option to allow tags to be modified by people of the user's choosing, through a dropdown or radio button menu in the settings. For instance:

Allow tags to be added by:
( ) Anyone
( ) Friends and Site Staff
( ) Site Staff Only

Allow tags to be deleted by:
( ) Anyone
( ) Friends and Site Staff
( ) Site Staff Only

Prevent tags added by me from being deleted by non-site staff:
[ ]

You could also distinguish the artist's tags from the community's by changing their colour; and remove anonymous trolling potential by stating which artist left the tag (perhaps with hovertext as you mouse over it), as well as notifying the artist when tags have been added or removed.

Granted, I don't know if that's all feasible, and I'm sure my suggestion has room for improvement, but it's what I got off the top of my head.

ali
10-19-2012, 01:21 PM
someone tagged all of my stuff as 'furry' and told me to 'tag my things correctly' when most of it is 'kemonomimi' and just human people with cat ears and tails. i don't consider this furry. it normally isn't considered furry. i don't like people being able to edit my tags with things i don't agree with.

since i normally never tag things on sites.. if i'm being forced to tag things, i at least want total control over what's associated with my art, and don't want anyone else editing them for me.

the tagging feature bothers me and i really want an option to keep people from touching my tags.

also, may i suggest implementing an option where a users name is shown from 'last edited tags' or something, so if someone messes with a tag, we know who did it, especially if it's harassment, let's say, for extreme measures. like, someone tagged an art piece as 'shit' because they're an immature person for example?

Spelunker Sal
10-19-2012, 01:43 PM
someone tagged all of my stuff as 'furry' and told me to 'tag my things correctly' when most of it is 'kemonomimi' and just human people with cat ears and tails. i don't consider this furry. it normally isn't considered furry. i don't like people being able to edit my tags with things i don't agree with.

since i normally never tag things on sites.. if i'm being forced to tag things, i at least want total control over what's associated with my art, and don't want anyone else editing them for me.

the tagging feature bothers me and i really want an option to keep people from touching my tags.

also, may i suggest implementing an option where a users name is shown from 'last edited tags' or something, so if someone messes with a tag, we know who did it, especially if it's harassment, let's say, for extreme measures. like, someone tagged an art piece as 'shit' because they're an immature person for example?


That same guy did the same to me. It's kind of annoying that he asks that, and then does it for you whether you wanted it or not. It could have been something malicious instead though, which is why it's a problem. I think having it say who edited which tag would be a good idea too, but also having the option to not have tags added without your permission is definitely a necessity.

ali
10-19-2012, 02:10 PM
That same guy did the same to me. It's kind of annoying that he asks that, and then does it for you whether you wanted it or not. It could have been something malicious instead though, which is why it's a problem. I think having it say who edited which tag would be a good idea too, but also having the option to not have tags added without your permission is definitely a necessity.

hah. good to know i'm not the only one pissed about it. B( how fucking rude. he doesn't even follow me either, i don't know why it's such a huge problem for him.. what.. he saw it on the front page for less than an hour?? and it bothered him so much he had to forcibly tag it? i don't understand the logic behind that.

agreed 100%!

Ben
10-19-2012, 02:28 PM
We do sorely need something that notifies users when their tags are changed, yes. I'll make sure our coding team knows this.

Now, as far as users being able to edit tags goes:

We have it set so all users can add to one's tags, in order to ensure that the tag filters of our userbase are being fully respected. The universal tag for work that contains characters embodying animal and human traits is actually anthro, not furry, since we know there are many things one might consider furry, which are not accurately described by such a term. You can tag your work as furry if you want, of course, but the universal tag is anthro.

We do have members of this site who do not hail from the furry community, as we are looking to be as diverse and open a site as possible, which is why we want to make sure our users are adding the "anthro" tag to anything concerning bipedal creatures with any feral animal traits (kemonomimi is fine to add too). Basically, it's just an issue of being courteous to other users.

However, on that note of courtesy, it's also not acceptable to be overly belligerent about this. We'll make sure to speak to the user(s) in question who are doing this, as while we do want anthro works to be tagged as anthro, we certainly don't want to communicate that information in any rude sort of way. Sorry for any inconvenience that may have been caused.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 02:44 PM
We'll make sure to speak to the user(s) in question who are doing this

Well, I'm right here.

I asked those two politely to tag their stuff as "furry", "anthro", and whatever else. If I came across as rude, I'm sorry.

As Ben said, I'm one of the users on the site who doesn't hail from the furry community, and I would like my filters to be respected, just as we would respect your tag filters to block things you don't want to see.

Sal, I only asked you nicely to tag your stuff as "furry" or "anthro" because it fit under the general definition of the term "furry" or "anthro"

Ali, I asked you the same thing because your "kemonomimi" art doesn't mesh with the definition of the term "kemonomimi" that I've always held, since most of your characters, although anthropomorphic, are heavily animalized.

I'm not trying to force tags upon you or anything else, I just would like some order to the tags on the website. I also only PMed you two on the main site with my message because you uploaded multiple pictures that needed the tag, and I felt I shouldn't have filed an official report for a first time thing, and that we could talk it out and reach an agreement. If you uploaded a single picture, I would have just tagged it and not said a word.

Again, I'm sorry if I came across as rude, even though I tried to be civil. Both of you are good artists, but all of us have different tastes in what we want to see.

ali
10-19-2012, 03:18 PM
@ben

maybe with the notifications, we can have added requests to change tags. honestly, it's going to be problematic for people to purposely mistag things, and it would be annoying to go back, remove the tags we feel don't apply to our art. little things like the kemonomimi/furry/anthro debate here is proof of that- we have our own ways of labeling what our art is made up of, isn't that the artist's right alone..?

i don't know, i don't like people being able to play with my tags. the tags are usually for the artist to direct people by those key words.. i don't know why that's suddenly made universal. yes it may be more accurate, but it may be abused and some people, such as myself, don't want people holding that ability by default.. really hoping for an option that disables it in the future.

@rx

i don't know what your definition is of kemonomimi, but: Kemonomimi (獣耳 or けものみみ, lit. beast ears) describes humanoid characters that possess animal-like features

therefore, leave it as kemonomimi, not furry. it's tagged appropriately, that's why i tagged it as such. my characters in that picture are not heavily animalized... they are humans with cat ears and cat tails, the basic definition, the universal definition of kemonomimi. i will add the anthro tag knowing that's the universal tag, but unless my character is covered in fur, i'm not tagging it as furry.

Ben
10-19-2012, 03:27 PM
we have our own ways of labeling what our art is made up of, isn't that the artist's right alone..?

We understand the issue of rights. However, if we aren't doing everything we can to ensure that our tag filtering system actually works, than a crucial function of the site is crippled. Now, there are ways that we can fix this. One is having a smart-tagging system so that tags of a similar nature are all linked together, i.e. if someone filters "furry" at the adult level, it could also suggest similar tags like anthro and kemonomimi if it's a problem for them. Another thing we need to do is make it clearer that this site isn't meant to be centric to one community, and is meant to be open to artists of all kinds.

Another idea would be to have our Ferret system more centered on maintaining our tag infrastructure, so that people we have designated as trustworthy can edit tags, even if you decide to set an option that says normal users cannot edit tags. I will need to run these ideas by everyone and see what they think, but I will do my best.

Temrin
10-19-2012, 03:29 PM
Hmm, There is a "dont allow people to remove my tags" in the settings, but perhaps there can be one to not allow people to put them in? Or even as Ali said, Perhaps there would be an option to have a requests type deal. If we dont want people changing it, we could also have the option to stop it from automatically being done. So there would be a few settings.

-To allow people to add tags (no artist moderation)
-To allow people to request tags (allows artists to accept or decline, possible commenting to tell person why it was declined)
-To not allow anyone to change my tags, period.

ali
10-19-2012, 03:29 PM
We understand the issue of rights. However, if we aren't doing everything we can to ensure that our tag filtering system actually works, than a crucial function of the site is crippled. Now, there are ways that we can fix this. One is having a smart-tagging system so that tags of a similar nature are all linked together, i.e. if someone filters "furry" at the adult level, it could also suggest similar tags like anthro and kemonomimi if it's a problem for them. Another thing we need to do is make it clearer that this site isn't meant to be centric to one community, and is meant to be open to artists of all kinds.

Another idea would be to have our Ferret system more centered on maintaining our tag infrastructure, so that people we have designated as trustworthy can edit tags, even if you decide to set an option that says normal users cannot edit tags. I will need to run these ideas by everyone and see what they think, but I will do my best.

yeah, i like those ideas! especially the trustworthy thing, i think that would be helpful while still keeping it universal. thank you for taking our suggestions into consideration <3

Ray
10-19-2012, 03:34 PM
Well, I'm right here.

I asked those two politely to tag their stuff as "furry", "anthro", and whatever else. If I came across as rude, I'm sorry.

As Ben said, I'm one of the users on the site who doesn't hail from the furry community, and I would like my filters to be respected, just as we would respect your tag filters to block things you don't want to see.

Sal, I only asked you nicely to tag your stuff as "furry" or "anthro" because it fit under the general definition of the term "furry" or "anthro"

Ali, I asked you the same thing because your "kemonomimi" art doesn't mesh with the definition of the term "kemonomimi" that I've always held, since most of your characters, although anthropomorphic, are heavily animalized.

I'm not trying to force tags upon you or anything else, I just would like some order to the tags on the website. I also only PMed you two on the main site with my message because you uploaded multiple pictures that needed the tag, and I felt I shouldn't have filed an official report for a first time thing, and that we could talk it out and reach an agreement. If you uploaded a single picture, I would have just tagged it and not said a word.

Again, I'm sorry if I came across as rude, even though I tried to be civil. Both of you are good artists, but all of us have different tastes in what we want to see.

Criminey, people like you exist?

As a browser from FA, I would typically commission a work and slap it onto my page with the necessary mature rating and go on about my day until I could be bothered to tweak it. No complaints, no issues, and no thoughts aside from making use of a utility I'd invested abit of data entry and time into.

With weasyl, I'll be penalized and pestered over doing the exact same thing and not sticking a bunch of tags on it instead of instantly tumbling off the site to go join my friends in a game, answer the IM I just received, or going back to the commissioned artist to thank them for their great work?

This seems like a mechanic that will be nitpicked from first implication until the end of time by particular folks that either wish to harrass, exploit, or simply are so skewed in their sense of tags that it will end up being a huge stain instead of a helpful and marketable utility.

ali
10-19-2012, 03:36 PM
Hmm, There is a "dont allow people to remove my tags" in the settings, but perhaps there can be one to not allow people to put them in? Or even as Ali said, Perhaps there would be an option to have a requests type deal. If we dont want people changing it, we could also have the option to stop it from automatically being done. So there would be a few settings.

-To allow people to add tags (no artist moderation)
-To allow people to request tags (allows artists to accept or decline, possible commenting to tell person why it was declined)
-To not allow anyone to change my tags, period.

i thought it was strange you can keep people from removing tags, but you can't keep them from adding, so it only makes a little sense we should be able to have that option as well.

although, i prefer the no removing compared to the no adding, since the artist is the only one who can remove the tags from their own work, so... why can't that be reversed?

Spelunker Sal
10-19-2012, 03:40 PM
RX-Dragonite, I understand your concern about the whole "furry" tag thing. I just feel it's too broad, as Ben said. But, that's not really the issue I was getting at. The issue is adding in tags onto someone's work at all. I know it was not your intention to be malicious in any way, and that's great. I appreciate that. But someone else could just as easily put in "[name]_is_a_douchebag" or something like that, and other people seeing that would be led to think that the artist/writer put that tag in, when they really didn't. That is the issue I was originally concerned with.

I respectfully disagree with your "furry" tag thing you brought up, so I'm choosing not to implement that and using Weasyl's "anthro" tag they want instead (which I've been doing). So hopefully, as Ben said, they'll be working on this issue in general to make the whole general-art-site thing better.

Oly
10-19-2012, 03:47 PM
Criminey, people like you exist?

As a browser from FA, I would typically commission a work and slap it onto my page with the necessary mature rating and go on about my day until I could be bothered to tweak it. No complaints, no issues, and no thoughts aside from making use of a utility I'd invested abit of data entry and time into.

With weasyl, I'll be penalized and pestered over doing the exact same thing and not sticking a bunch of tags on it instead of instantly tumbling off the site to go join my friends in a game, answer the IM I just received, or going back to the commissioned artist to thank them for their great work?

This seems like a mechanic that will be nitpicked from first implication until the end of time by particular folks that either wish to harrass, exploit, or simply are so skewed in their sense of tags that it will end up being a huge stain instead of a helpful and marketable utility.

It's actually strongly encouraged by the staff themselves for people to put at least three relevant tags on every submission.

So no, this isn't FA, and yes it is frowned upon to just slap something up without putting much thought into it.


A thought; it'd be handy, along with auto-suggested tags or the like, to have a little pop-up or somesuch feature with your commonly used tags in it. so if you tag everything you post with whatever tag, there's a faster way to do it.

Ray
10-19-2012, 03:50 PM
It's actually strongly encouraged by the staff themselves for people to put at least three relevant tags on every submission.

So no, this isn't FA, and yes it is frowned upon to just slap something up without putting much thought into it.


No, it's not FA. I came here to leave FA. With how I'm seeing the users act and the admins act on their behalf thanks to screenshots shared, I'm a half-skip away from just going back to FA.

Oly
10-19-2012, 04:05 PM
Well it's a damn shame if you're ready to abandon a new site which is still in beta and trying to find it's exact stride.
It's still in beta for a good reason. and in my experience it's already a hell of a lot better than deviantart or furaffinity. Part of the reason for that is because the staff does actually react to feedback.
It goes both ways though. Don't mistake a willingness to consider feedback for a willingness to pander to exactly what you or any other one user wants, and respect their willingess to react to feedback with a willingness to cooperate with the system they devise.

For what it's worth, on FA I often slap shit up with no tags or dumb tags or whatever, or use it like I use tumblr tags to just write extra comments about the submission. But when i submit to weasyl, I respect that they desire their tag system to be used a certain way.

Vine
10-19-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think it would be helpful to have an option to get a notification when someone tags your stuff for people who do allow the public to change tags.
That way stuff could still get tagged accurately, but users could also be aware if someone is trying to troll or harass them via tags.

Ray
10-19-2012, 04:16 PM
Don't mistake a willingness to consider feedback for a willingness to pander to exactly what you or any other one user wants, and respect their willingess to react to feedback with a willingness to cooperate with the system they devise.

I'm not mistaking backseat moderation by a single user for anything else than exactly what it is.

If this is the kind of thing I see a number of people complaining about all because of one person, I'm going to have to take into account how much this person who doesn't want to be bothered by furry artworks is bothering other users and admin staff about those furry artworks.

Ben
10-19-2012, 04:22 PM
Criminey, people like you exist?

As a browser from FA, I would typically commission a work and slap it onto my page with the necessary mature rating and go on about my day until I could be bothered to tweak it. No complaints, no issues, and no thoughts aside from making use of a utility I'd invested abit of data entry and time into.

With weasyl, I'll be penalized and pestered over doing the exact same thing and not sticking a bunch of tags on it instead of instantly tumbling off the site to go join my friends in a game, answer the IM I just received, or going back to the commissioned artist to thank them for their great work?

This seems like a mechanic that will be nitpicked from first implication until the end of time by particular folks that either wish to harrass, exploit, or simply are so skewed in their sense of tags that it will end up being a huge stain instead of a helpful and marketable utility.

Well on that site, tag filtering isn't something that exists. We want people to add tags here because a very heavily demanded feature, the ability to filter content based on tags, is one we have here. I would also advise refraining from saying things like "people like you exist"-- We don't want this thread to become heated by any means.

We do acknowledge there are things we can do to improve the system, but we do want to make it clear why we make it a requirement for people to add tags to their works; if they didn't, the tag filter feature would be absolutely useless. Don't worry, we're doing everything we can to make this as friendly a site to use as possible, and would like to assure you guys that we won't let you down.

Personally, I feel the strongest solution would be to give you guys the option to be able to stop normal users from editing your tags, and only letting staff/a team of dedicated entry-level staff members edit them. I will talk to the team and see what they make of this.

Oly
10-19-2012, 04:39 PM
I'm not mistaking backseat moderation by a single user for anything else than exactly what it is.

If this is the kind of thing I see a number of people complaining about all because of one person, I'm going to have to take into account how much this person who doesn't want to be bothered by furry artworks is bothering other users and admin staff about those furry artworks.

And one person making a big deal is enough to turn you off a whole site?

Besides that, said user is using a feature of the site as it is, at the moment, meant to be used. The details of that intended use can and likely will change, possibly drastically, possibly not. he wasn't making a big deal about it, he was using the feature the way it's meant to be used and contacting users to make sure they understand the tagging system here, which the mods and admins fully encourage.

If you don't want to stay I'm not going to make a huge argument for you to, but the more people working to better the site the better the site will get, the stronger the community. Complaining and getting personal about things doesn't help.

RadioCatastrophe
10-19-2012, 04:55 PM
A thread I made similar to this: http://forums.weasyl.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?1041-Where-are-the-quot-Sub-quot-Categories

I agree that basic tags need to be added when it comes to the model/character of the piece. Such as in furry works or anthropomorphic works, the species and whether it's a kemonmimi or not should be taken into account. As I said in my thread I've blocked a wide range of animals (not many but more than the basic fandom favorites) and I still see a lot of furry artwork, needless to say I am not against it but I'd like to see more than just that as I still frequent FA and would like to see the other things people are uploading.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 05:22 PM
i don't know what your definition is of kemonomimi, but: Kemonomimi (獣耳 or けものみみ, lit. beast ears) describes humanoid characters that possess animal-like features

I was basically going by Wikipedia's article entry on them, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_anthropomorphism#Animals

Yours seemed more furry than "kemo-y", is all I thought.


therefore, leave it as kemonomimi, not furry. it's tagged appropriately, that's why i tagged it as such. my characters in that picture are not heavily animalized... they are humans with cat ears and cat tails, the basic definition, the universal definition of kemonomimi. i will add the anthro tag knowing that's the universal tag, but unless my character is covered in fur, i'm not tagging it as furry.

Alright, I can live with that, and I understand your side too.


We understand the issue of rights. However, if we aren't doing everything we can to ensure that our tag filtering system actually works, than a crucial function of the site is crippled. Now, there are ways that we can fix this. One is having a smart-tagging system so that tags of a similar nature are all linked together, i.e. if someone filters "furry" at the adult level, it could also suggest similar tags like anthro and kemonomimi if it's a problem for them. Another thing we need to do is make it clearer that this site isn't meant to be centric to one community, and is meant to be open to artists of all kinds.

Another idea would be to have our Ferret system more centered on maintaining our tag infrastructure, so that people we have designated as trustworthy can edit tags, even if you decide to set an option that says normal users cannot edit tags. I will need to run these ideas by everyone and see what they think, but I will do my best.

All of these are great ideas


I respectfully disagree with your "furry" tag thing you brought up, so I'm choosing not to implement that and using Weasyl's "anthro" tag they want instead (which I've been doing). So hopefully, as Ben said, they'll be working on this issue in general to make the whole general-art-site thing better.

Alright, that's cool. I have anthro on my filter now for adult pics.


I'm not mistaking backseat moderation by a single user for anything else than exactly what it is.

If this is the kind of thing I see a number of people complaining about all because of one person, I'm going to have to take into account how much this person who doesn't want to be bothered by furry artworks is bothering other users and admin staff about those furry artworks.

I didn't know asking 2 artists politely to add some tags that would help them and others was backseat moderation.

Regardless, yes, the tag system needs work. Yes, there needs to be measures to prevent tag abuse. The site is still in beta, so nothing will be perfect or even close for awhile.

but at least it isn't the bug filled and security compromised mess FA is, or the anarchal mess dA us, or the dead wastes SA is

And my responses have made me figure out how much I loathe how quoting posts work on forums. Too much time on the chans I guess

Ray
10-19-2012, 05:37 PM
I didn't know asking 2 artists politely to add some tags that would help them and others was backseat moderation.





I know it isn't. Look at the post date that you quoted. It's way before I messaged you last night. I was

You're also on the first page of this forum section inquiring about tag-blocks and you even have a journal written up on the subject. Apparently tags are a very, very serious issue with you, and are paramount to your viewing experience.

So just how many people have you been PM'ing, pestering, and possibly harassing over this issue?

Ben
10-19-2012, 05:41 PM
You're also on the first page of this forum section inquiring about tag-blocks and you even have a journal written up on the subject. Apparently tags are a very, very serious issue with you, and are paramount to your viewing experience.

So just how many people have you been PM'ing, pestering, and possibly harassing over this issue?

Come on now, there's no need to make this a personal issue. If you want to hash it out with him, just talk to him privately. We want this thread to be civil, and not to be about personal attacks.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 05:51 PM
Apparently tags are a very, very serious issue with you, and are paramount to your viewing experience.

Considering tags are the very reason you can search and find art on most websites, yeah they're pretty paramount to anybody's viewing experience.


So just how many people have you been PM'ing, pestering, and possibly harassing over this issue?

I'm not going to lie, I have PMed a few people about it. However, most of the people replied kindly and courteously, understanding why the tags were important.

And I'm only PMing people about all of this so I don't have to resort to reporting them, getting them in trouble with the staff, wasting the staff's time, etc. If I can reach a compromise with other artists about tags, then there shouldn't be a need to involve the staff.

ali
10-19-2012, 05:55 PM
@rx

i don't see how that definition is... different but okay. also, a simple google search of 'kemonomimi' will basically give you the sense it's a person with animal like features. yes, i draw furries. it does not make my kemonomimi furry.

also, can i ask why you only mention /adult/ pics? isn't that what a nsfw or porn or any other sexual word is for, not just.. anthro? anthro doesn't mean it's automatically porn. please explain this to me because i don't understand what you're even getting at.

Unburnt Daenerys
10-19-2012, 06:05 PM
also, can i ask why you only mention /adult/ pics? isn't that what a nsfw or porn or any other sexual word is for, not just.. anthro? anthro doesn't mean it's automatically porn. please explain this to me because i don't understand what you're even getting at.

He wants to fap without seeing cat ears, basically.

ali
10-19-2012, 06:09 PM
He wants to fap without seeing cat ears, basically.

what a reason that is probably the truth

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 06:09 PM
also, can i ask why you only mention /adult/ pics? isn't that what a nsfw or porn or any other sexual word is for, not just.. anthro? anthro doesn't mean it's automatically porn. please explain this to me because i don't understand what you're even getting at.

I just don't like furry/anthro/kemonomimi/etc. porn. I used to, but that was a long time ago. Also, I do know anthro =/= porn, which is why I only have the anthro tag blocked on adult pics. Otherwise I'm okay with non-porn and tasteful nude anthros.

Which does remind me, I do want to look through your gallery some time. You do have a cool art style.


He wants to fap without seeing cat ears, basically.

Pfffft

ali
10-19-2012, 06:15 PM
I just don't like furry/anthro/kemonomimi/etc. porn. I used to, but that was a long time ago. Also, I do know anthro =/= porn, which is why I only have the anthro tag blocked on adult pics. Otherwise I'm okay with non-porn and tasteful nude anthros.

Which does remind me, I do want to look through your gallery some time. You do have a cool art style.



Pfffft

still, you're only singling out porn, you haven't mentioned a thing about sfw anthro art being tagged appropriately.

and thank you but i have a feeling it won't cater to your specific taste and the majority of it will be blocked anyway..

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 06:26 PM
still, you're only singling out porn, you haven't mentioned a thing about sfw anthro art being tagged appropriately.

I thought I did earlier, but then again this whole thing is spread across two threads. Basically, an image should be tagged properly no matter what maturity level it is. It just helps with organizing. You don't want your apples in your oranges and your oranges in your bananas, ya know?


and thank you but i have a feeling it won't cater to your specific taste and the majority of it will be blocked anyway..

I'm friends with people who draw some disturbing stuff (vore, monster girls, etc.), but I can respect what they draw on an artistic level some of the time.

TangoDelahunt
10-19-2012, 06:29 PM
You don't want your apples in your oranges and your oranges in your bananas, ya know?



Sure I do. How else do you make a fruit salad? :roflmao:

Ray
10-19-2012, 06:43 PM
Considering tags are the very reason you can search and find art on most websites, yeah they're pretty paramount to anybody's viewing experience.



I'm not going to lie, I have PMed a few people about it. However, most of the people replied kindly and courteously, understanding why the tags were important.

And I'm only PMing people about all of this so I don't have to resort to reporting them, getting them in trouble with the staff, wasting the staff's time, etc. If I can reach a compromise with other artists about tags, then there shouldn't be a need to involve the staff.

There is nothing courteous about your repeated and excessive efforts to champion a terribly specific cause. Anything that you have tried to do for the sake of playing rogue-admin and wielding admin reprisal in private has been undone. A benign issue has now been made larger because of you.

This is a beta. You're more than welcome to discuss potential changes on the forums. Randomly tapping people on the shoulder and bursting into fap-oriented rhetoric specific to you is not okay.

Stop that.

Stop being silly this very instant.

ali
10-19-2012, 06:46 PM
There is nothing courteous about your repeated and excessive efforts to champion a terribly specific cause. Anything that you have tried to do for the sake of playing rogue-admin and wielding admin reprisal in private has been undone. A benign issue has now been made larger because of you.

This is a beta. You're more than welcome to discuss potential changes on the forums. Randomly tapping people on the shoulder and bursting into fap-oriented rhetoric specific to you is not okay.

Stop that.

Stop being silly this very instant.

why can't i favorite all of your posts

but yeah agreed with this, trying to play admin was uncalled for.

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:47 PM
There is nothing courteous about your repeated and excessive efforts to champion a terribly specific cause. Anything that you have tried to do for the sake of playing rogue-admin and wielding admin reprisal in private has been undone. A benign issue has now been made larger because of you.

This is a beta. You're more than welcome to discuss potential changes on the forums. Randomly tapping people on the shoulder and bursting into fap-oriented rhetoric specific to you is not okay.

Stop that.

Stop being silly this very instant.

Dragonite has said that he'll stop PMing people about this issue, and merely report it to us so we can handle it. I understand your concern, but fighting from either party isn't something we want, and we would appreciate it if the hostilities here would cease. Everyone can get along here, but it takes a conscious effort from both sides to make that happen. So while we all agree with your sentiments, let's try to bring this back to a more civil and constructive tone. We really do appreciate your concerns though, and want to make sure you know that.

Oly
10-19-2012, 06:53 PM
There is nothing courteous about your repeated and excessive efforts to champion a terribly specific cause. Anything that you have tried to do for the sake of playing rogue-admin and wielding admin reprisal in private has been undone. A benign issue has now been made larger because of you.

This is a beta. You're more than welcome to discuss potential changes on the forums. Randomly tapping people on the shoulder and bursting into fap-oriented rhetoric specific to you is not okay.

Stop that.

Stop being silly this very instant.

It's not about his specific hang-ups or desires. It's about getting people to tag properly overall. It would be no different if his thing had been not wanting to see females or macro/micro stuff or my little pony any other thing.

He has been asking people to tag their shit properly. As he says, he has politely PM'd quite a few people and most of them have been completely understanding, because he's not ranting or harassing, that's jsut how you've personally taken it.

So you stop 'being silly' as you put it.

Ben
10-19-2012, 06:57 PM
Come on guys, really, break it up. We can have discussions about these things without it turning personal. It's much easier to discuss these things if we aren't getting hung up on slinging jabs at each other, so by all means, please cool your jets so we can have a civilized discussion, without wanting to rip each others hair out.

Ray
10-19-2012, 07:06 PM
It's not about his specific hang-ups or desires. It's about getting people to tag properly overall. It would be no different if his thing had been not wanting to see females or macro/micro stuff or my little pony any other thing.

He has been asking people to tag their shit properly. As he says, he has politely PM'd quite a few people and most of them have been completely understanding, because he's not ranting or harassing, that's jsut how you've personally taken it.

So you stop 'being silly' as you put it.

If by "personally" you mean "those 50+ people gawking at this whole debacle", then yes. Generalized or personalized, the point still stands that the actual key issue is still at large and that one particular person was very, very naughty in how he handled himself in front of others on several different occasions. I'd actually be curious to see how many folks he had messaged over the matter.

But back on topic, the entire issue of tagging other works seems to solve as many issues as it brings up. There are varying connotations applied to terms that conflict with their actual definitions. There are lazy uploaders. There are zealous taggers. There are trolls.

Wat do, gentlemen? Wat do?

RadioCatastrophe
10-19-2012, 07:14 PM
D: Stop it guys you gonna get us all in trouble!
I dun wanna go to time out cause some of the class is being mean ;- ;
/end

Anyways, I don't get the hostility behind this. I can see where it might be consider stepping on toes but no need to attack anyone especially when an Admin has repeatedly asked nicely for it all to stop. I'm surprised no one has gotten a warning or temp-ban from the forums yet. I have to admit I did this myself on a piece that vaguely described anything about it, it was the most basic words that most people would filter out such as "holiday" "tropical" "umbrella" I mean if people are so use to the drop down of FA how hard is it to label a characters species and whether or not they are anthro or not? It shouldn't be that hard to use a system designed to help folks filter things they wish to see or don't wish to see and I fund it rude that people don't take others into account when tagging know full well this site isn't just for furry/anthro artists.

As I said in my thread before, even with all the tags I added specifying species I still got more than a hand full of furry art ranging from General to Adult, it was a test to see just how well people used this tagging system and it's just awful to see people not put thought behind their submission and make it easier for people who don't wish to view that subject matter.

ali
10-19-2012, 07:17 PM
perhaps there could be some kind of universal list for certain tags that must be applied, for the sake of these users, like.. anthro, for example. give a clear definition, make it a standard rule type of thing so there's no WELL I THOUGHT ANTHRO MEANT THIS!!

kind of like an aup or something, only with tags. since you need at least 3 tags to upload, the required tags could be a type of species, a type of sub species if an animal, gender, something else...

then again you have people that don't care about these things so you'd still be at a loss when something's mis-tagged. HO HUM. well it could be a start!!

also i don't see how this discussion turned hostile, it got slightly heated, but i think hostile is an exaggeration. it's just a debate, if you will, but that's over and done with so on we go to new exciting ideas.

Vine
10-19-2012, 07:38 PM
I think it would be helpful if there was a list of popular tags, that way people could know better what to submit their artwork to based on what's used most commonly?
Might get a bit messy when the site goes public and the list of used tags grow, but, eh.

Oly
10-19-2012, 07:43 PM
With respect, not trying to be heated or hostile, not trying to attack anyone. Just trying to discuss things and respond to points raised. I've even been stripping my speech of the usually liberal fuckins and other cusses i typically employ, to ensure they don't turn the flavor of my words more hostile than intended.

Ray: I don't know how many people he did PM but he said it was quite a few, and again only a few of the people he did got up in arms about it.
Yeah he didn't handle things the best, but neither are you/have you handled things as well as you could - you don't have to attack him for trying to serve the community and perhaps failing to do it in the best possible manner.
But as others and I myself have said, no point bashing that into the ground further, so I'll do my best to drop it. x3

As for wat do, i personally think the direction the staff has been headed is pretty solid. And there have been quite a few good suggestions raised from the discussion today. At the particular moment i think it's best to wait and allow the staff some time to actually confer and decide on some action here.

And of course to make sure that we are telling people that it's not just a furry site, no matter how much or little emphasis is placed on that aspect. And i for one am looking forward to a place where I can see quality art of all kinds in addition to a strong furry art community.

RX-149Dragonite
10-19-2012, 07:51 PM
perhaps there could be some kind of universal list for certain tags that must be applied, for the sake of these users, like.. anthro, for example. give a clear definition, make it a standard rule type of thing so there's no WELL I THOUGHT ANTHRO MEANT THIS!!

There is an idea like that being tossed around in the other thread and it is being pretty well accepted.

And speaking of the other thread, I did make an apology to all the artists involved with this fandango. There are things I could have done differently, and there are things everybody else could have done differently, for the better of course. I just thought privately talking with artists civilly would have worked without getting the staff involved.

My shortcomings today aside, I think good progress has been made to help this situation in the future. It is conflicts like these that help betas grow, after all.